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Tuesday, April 26, 2016
City to Merge Bus System w Ulster as part of Sales Tax Agreement
A more detailed story later. We are happy that Mayor Noble is agreeing to a plan that we presented on this blog two months ago. This merger will be a huge savings to city taxpayers. More later.
It's gunna save the city a lot of coin... On more ways then one!! The city bus is a redundant service that runs at a huge deficit and city bus should not be collecting and counting meter money.
It actually doesnt save the city a ton of money as 80 to 90 percent of citibus is funded by state and feds. Futhermore your main focus seems to be the counting of meter money....who should be counting it then?? If your suggesting the police department well then im inclined to agree as maybe less room for theft. However not quite sure why your so in favor of this deal...
The comptroller's office, the parking officers whoever someone that has some connection to the department. The police don't have time to be counting Quarters and dimes they have better things to do. There are cameras in the comptrollers office, the same should exist with the counting of meter money, it's hundreds of thousands of dollars. That has nothing do with the merger just the beef I have w city bus which I blame on Tuey not Toni to be clear he should not allow this. I'm in favor because city bus is a money loser and it makes sense financially short and long term for county to take this over. It's a far better merger than when the city merged tourism which was a mistake.
So let me get this straight....you want people who write the tickets which correspond to meter money and who collect the meter money to also access it to count it as well....i agree with you on many points but thats not a good idea...i have yet to understand how citibus loses that much money. Im asking from an inquisitive point as i dont know a great deal about it. Only bits and pieces which ive read
The parking department is big enough and generates enough money to be an entity of itself, it's one of the only departments in the city that turns a profit. Parking officer was an example, it could be the meter collector, it could be Charlene the head of parking violations currently, or keep her in the comptroller's office and appoint someone from within that deals with the counting of money, the collection of fines and the court cases. It should not be the city bus director is all that I am saying.
The City bus loses money for a lot of reasons, the cost to operate the buses, gas upkeep ect., the heavy staff both administratively and bus drivers and the lack of it's use. It is not used by enough residents to justify it's operation when the county could provide the same services without the duplication that exists now. I agree that a city should provide it's residents with a bus system, period. However, it does not necessarily have to be run by the city, we can't afford it. The county can do the job and that's the way to go in my opinion.
All I asked was the details of the agreement no where have I criticized Noble on sales tax issue. I havnt read it fully yet so I will reserve comment. This still has to be approved by both the counsel and legislature btw.
It's first thing I thought of when I read that, see this week brought you two examples of when you do a story intelligently and not be a vulgar person that people listen. Did the Mayor get the idea from your site doubtful and if he did he won't admit it but you can't deny you proposed it first. Same with Cardinale story. Come out from behind anonymous and be respectful it will get you further. Unless you are in an elected spot already and can't ?
I do not serve in any elected capacity nor do I have the desire to blog under my real name.. The political Feds will tolerate certian things, certian things not the way I run this website. No snitchin'
This is not a good deal for the City. The bus merger will undoubtedly offer less services to Kingston residents. No protection from established routes. Routes could just be canceled.
The City must maintain a county built rail trail starting at Washington Ave and going east to God knows where. No additional funding for this. The county will relocate their vehicle and equipment impound lot to the City of Kinstons transfer station. No mention of how much space the transfer station will lose. Maybe all of it. This agreement could put the city in a financial bind. If sales tax revenue goes up Kingstons share is capped at prior year.
The city potentially will lose up to $750,000 during the course of the agreement. Boy wonder will have to start tightening his belt from this point forward because he has already gone over the tax cap. It's time to pack up and move out of Nobleville while we have the chance...
Blame the kid all you want. Bottom line it's up to the council to approve it. Be interesting how this plays out. Sure it will all be front page news. Transparency.
This will pass we will defend this proposal and point out all relevant facts on this and it's cost savings to the city. I call upon the Conservative party Chairman to also support Noble on this, if he cares about Kingston and smaller Government as he says he does. He Gould back up his words with action. I support Mayor Noble and County Exexutive Mike Hein on this proposal, it's a huge money saver and just common sense. Besides the obvious duplication of services that exist with city bus, it runs at a huge deficit every year.
Sure I get that which is more of a reason why you have ONE UNIFIED deficit maker than two and if the city can be the one to save the $ even better. Robert DiBella's wife is a former Alderwonan and homeless coordinator for Kingston city schools, I'm more than confident they care about adequate public transportation in the City of Kingston and it will be provided under the county take over
Alderwomen DiBella wanted to cut the recreation Dept out of the budget when she was alderman. Depriving homeless and low income kids activities the needed. Not sure if she really cares or is just collecting a paycheck.
The deal clearly states "so long as such system does not result in any additional cost to the county". Staff will be laid off and runs will be cut. The poor of Kingston suffer. Paragraph 9 B C AND D are all open ended and could result in additional cost coming to the city. Those lose ends the council needs to tie up before signing off.
Steve Noble absorbed a huge loss here. He held a hand with four aces and folded to Mike Hein's bluff. At a minimum a $750K loss, probably more. Well at least the Booth House is saved, and the KPD will be stuck with a useless electric car!
read #5 A-E. Start doing the calculations as we proceed to year 2021..and in the unfortunate event of not getting the state tax 1% the city will take the brunt..County will be sitting pretty... Remember how much we lost with the failure of not receiving the 1% in a timely manner two budgets ago. City took a hit. and if the city does not have a good year in sales tax revenue the county will be doing just fine!
Hein is slick. What everyone is missing is that 40 percent of the city's and town's share is contingent on the 1 percent extension. Therefore that makes the passage of that far more critical to the whole sharing agreement. Hein and Noble are counting on the state passing that to make the towns and the city whole. The legislature and council should strike that part of this deal now!!! This is Hein's way to force the state's hand. Noble is being used as a pawn in Hein's power game. Wake up Mayor!!!
Hein is an asshole and anyone that agrees to this deal with that stipulation is also an asshole. It puts the fate of the Towns and Kingston in the hands of another branch of Government, simply foolish!
I've seen her in action, I may joke around about her but she's tough and very smart. Steve would be dumb not to utilize her for policy. She can make the role of "First Lady" different than it's ever been under former Mayors. I think she will and in many ways already has.
She is definitely the stronger of the two..he's more open and friendly and she is the stern task master. Never see a smile on her face unless the cameras are there.
Hein knows that Cahill will be less likely to bust his balls on the 1% if the City and towns are going to be hurt. Either Noble is part and parcel to that which would be a huge mistake, or he is very naive. Either way this stinks for Kingston and the towns.
To be honest I do not think Noble understand what is in this agreement. How can he? Hein told him what was going to be done and he said yes. There was not negotiation on this sales tax. The council should vote NO, but we know that will not happen just like the shooting range.
Hein can not see county bus system if there is local competition. So now there will be none. next move form some type of separate corp and separate it and reduce county employees.by same amount. just like infirmary. Then sale money goes to bottom line to balance budget And with tax reduction next time he runs. any thoughts?
Very difficult to merge. Bus drivers are up in arms on both sides. Not sure how much the busses costs but they do lose money. There will have to be cuts to service in the city of Kingston to make this deal work.
If county bus drivers are banking on there President to come to the rescue don't hold your breath. He will do whatever the county exec tells him to do. With a $7,000.00 a year raise and and no work job he has been bought and paid for. Wouldn't dare cross Hein. Good news is you can vote him out next year before the merger is complete.
For once I agree with Donaldson on the sales tax agreement. This is not good for the City, where is Loughran (no job) and Schwartz Berky (fired from County) on the sales tax issue. They represent the City of Kingston and they are siding with County Officials. City Residents should remember that when they run for re-election. They are not representing City residents only there to collect a pay check.
The Labor Relations Specialist for CSEA should be replaced. He did nothing when Golden Hill was sold. He did nothing when Mental Health was shut down. He will do nothing when the Buses merge.CSEA needs to get a backbone or get out of the way and let another Union represent the employees before it's too late!
it would appear so...he gets a pass on the indoor range so doesn't have to make an opinion about it. Curious as to what his opinions and vote would have been. but being employed by school district holds him hostage with his thoughts..since when does school board hold rule over city government?? so now we have county and school district having a say in city government. no tax relief for Kingston citizens from those entities.
There are still issues with this proposed Agreement.
ReplyDeleteDon't fight progress, Mayor Noble is showing leadership on this, I'm very surprised.
ReplyDeleteHow is this progress?
ReplyDeleteIt's gunna save the city a lot of coin... On more ways then one!! The city bus is a redundant service that runs at a huge deficit and city bus should not be collecting and counting meter money.
DeleteIn more ways than one*
DeleteIt actually doesnt save the city a ton of money as 80 to 90 percent of citibus is funded by state and feds. Futhermore your main focus seems to be the counting of meter money....who should be counting it then?? If your suggesting the police department well then im inclined to agree as maybe less room for theft. However not quite sure why your so in favor of this deal...
DeleteThe comptroller's office, the parking officers whoever someone that has some connection to the department. The police don't have time to be counting Quarters and dimes they have better things to do. There are cameras in the comptrollers office, the same should exist with the counting of meter money, it's hundreds of thousands of dollars. That has nothing do with the merger just the beef I have w city bus which I blame on Tuey not Toni to be clear he should not allow this. I'm in favor because city bus is a money loser and it makes sense financially short and long term for county to take this over. It's a far better merger than when the city merged tourism which was a mistake.
DeleteSo let me get this straight....you want people who write the tickets which correspond to meter money and who collect the meter money to also access it to count it as well....i agree with you on many points but thats not a good idea...i have yet to understand how citibus loses that much money. Im asking from an inquisitive point as i dont know a great deal about it. Only bits and pieces which ive read
DeleteThe parking department is big enough and generates enough money to be an entity of itself, it's one of the only departments in the city that turns a profit. Parking officer was an example, it could be the meter collector, it could be Charlene the head of parking violations currently, or keep her in the comptroller's office and appoint someone from within that deals with the counting of money, the collection of fines and the court cases. It should not be the city bus director is all that I am saying.
DeleteThe City bus loses money for a lot of reasons, the cost to operate the buses, gas upkeep ect., the heavy staff both administratively and bus drivers and the lack of it's use. It is not used by enough residents to justify it's operation when the county could provide the same services without the duplication that exists now. I agree that a city should provide it's residents with a bus system, period. However, it does not necessarily have to be run by the city, we can't afford it. The county can do the job and that's the way to go in my opinion.
Ok I can see that, make it it's own department out one person in charge and run as any other department in the city. It's a good idea.
DeleteTime to use the spitoon, Goodfellas, as the agreement is now announced and the sky didn't fall for Kingston as you predicted. Oops...
ReplyDeleteTime to use the spitoon, Goodfellas, as the agreement is now announced and the sky didn't fall for Kingston as you predicted. Oops...
ReplyDeleteAll I asked was the details of the agreement no where have I criticized Noble on sales tax issue. I havnt read it fully yet so I will reserve comment. This still has to be approved by both the counsel and legislature btw.
ReplyDeleteThe spelling is "council". "Counsel" is either something someone seeks or another name for an attorney.
Deleteread the details before you gleefully think this is a good idea... County passing on some expenses to City of Kingston...
ReplyDeleteIt's first thing I thought of when I read that, see this week brought you two examples of when you do a story intelligently and not be a vulgar person that people listen. Did the Mayor get the idea from your site doubtful and if he did he won't admit it but you can't deny you proposed it first. Same with Cardinale story. Come out from behind anonymous and be respectful it will get you further. Unless you are in an elected spot already and can't ?
ReplyDeleteI do not serve in any elected capacity nor do I have the desire to blog under my real name.. The political Feds will tolerate certian things, certian things not the way I run this website. No snitchin'
DeleteThis is not a good deal for the City.
ReplyDeleteThe bus merger will undoubtedly offer less services to Kingston residents. No protection from established routes. Routes could just be canceled.
The City must maintain a county built rail trail starting at Washington Ave and going east to God knows where. No additional funding for this.
The county will relocate their vehicle and equipment impound lot to the City of Kinstons transfer station. No mention of how much space the transfer station will lose. Maybe all of it.
This agreement could put the city in a financial bind.
If sales tax revenue goes up Kingstons share is capped at prior year.
The city potentially will lose up to $750,000 during the course of the agreement. Boy wonder will have to start tightening his belt from this point forward because he has already gone over the tax cap. It's time to pack up and move out of Nobleville while we have the chance...
ReplyDeletePlease explain how you came up with that number.
DeleteBlame the kid all you want. Bottom line it's up to the council to approve it. Be interesting how this plays out. Sure it will all be front page news. Transparency.
ReplyDeleteThis will pass we will defend this proposal and point out all relevant facts on this and it's cost savings to the city. I call upon the Conservative party Chairman to also support Noble on this, if he cares about Kingston and smaller Government as he says he does. He Gould back up his words with action. I support Mayor Noble and County Exexutive Mike Hein on this proposal, it's a huge money saver and just common sense. Besides the obvious duplication of services that exist with city bus, it runs at a huge deficit every year.
ReplyDeleteEvery mass transit loses money. If it made money the private sector would control it.
DeleteSure I get that which is more of a reason why you have ONE UNIFIED deficit maker than two and if the city can be the one to save the $ even better. Robert DiBella's wife is a former Alderwonan and homeless coordinator for Kingston city schools, I'm more than confident they care about adequate public transportation in the City of Kingston and it will be provided under the county take over
DeleteAlderwomen DiBella wanted to cut the recreation Dept out of the budget when she was alderman. Depriving homeless and low income kids activities the needed. Not sure if she really cares or is just collecting a paycheck.
DeleteThe deal clearly states "so long as such system does not result in any additional cost to the county". Staff will be laid off and runs will be cut. The poor of Kingston suffer.
DeleteParagraph 9 B C AND D are all open ended and could result in additional cost coming to the city. Those lose ends the council needs to tie up before signing off.
Steve Noble absorbed a huge loss here.
ReplyDeleteHe held a hand with four aces and folded to Mike Hein's bluff.
At a minimum a $750K loss, probably more.
Well at least the Booth House is saved, and the KPD will be stuck with a useless electric car!
Not seeing the $750,000.00 loss. Please explain.
DeleteIt doesn't exist
Deleteread #5 A-E. Start doing the calculations as we proceed to year 2021..and in the unfortunate event of not getting the state tax 1% the city will take the brunt..County will be sitting pretty... Remember how much we lost with the failure of not receiving the 1% in a timely manner two budgets ago. City took a hit. and if the city does not have a good year in sales tax revenue the county will be doing just fine!
DeleteHein is slick. What everyone is missing is that 40 percent of the city's and town's share is contingent on the 1 percent extension. Therefore that makes the passage of that far more critical to the whole sharing agreement. Hein and Noble are counting on the state passing that to make the towns and the city whole. The legislature and council should strike that part of this deal now!!! This is Hein's way to force the state's hand. Noble is being used as a pawn in Hein's power game. Wake up Mayor!!!
ReplyDeleteHein is an asshole and anyone that agrees to this deal with that stipulation is also an asshole. It puts the fate of the Towns and Kingston in the hands of another branch of Government, simply foolish!
DeleteI firmly believe that Mayor Noble brings everything home to Julie before making a decision, she's the Mayor.
ReplyDeleteYou give her to much credit
DeleteI've seen her in action, I may joke around about her but she's tough and very smart. Steve would be dumb not to utilize her for policy. She can make the role of "First Lady" different than it's ever been under former Mayors. I think she will and in many ways already has.
DeleteShe is definitely the stronger of the two..he's more open and friendly and she is the stern task master. Never see a smile on her face unless the cameras are there.
DeleteHein knows that Cahill will be less likely to bust his balls on the 1% if the City and towns are going to be hurt. Either Noble is part and parcel to that which would be a huge mistake, or he is very naive. Either way this stinks for Kingston and the towns.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest I do not think Noble understand what is in this agreement. How can he? Hein told him what was going to be done and he said yes. There was not negotiation on this sales tax. The council should vote NO, but we know that will not happen just like the shooting range.
ReplyDeleteHein can not see county bus system if there is local competition. So now there will be none. next move form some type of separate corp and separate it and reduce county employees.by same amount. just like infirmary. Then sale money goes to bottom line to balance budget And with tax reduction next time he runs. any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteYes. No private sector business we buy into mass transit system. You can't make money. If you could you would see it privatized already.
Deletebut he can create an ulster version of the MTA ThRUWAY OR PORT AUTHORITY and sell to them like Cuomo sold I-84 to Thruway.
ReplyDeleteI think the city had this discussion about the bus operation a few years back, didn't seem to work
ReplyDeleteVery difficult to merge. Bus drivers are up in arms on both sides. Not sure how much the busses costs but they do lose money. There will have to be cuts to service in the city of Kingston to make this deal work.
ReplyDeletecity bus drivers go to the bottom of the list and get laid off
DeleteNot necessarily.
DeleteIf county bus drivers are banking on there President to come to the rescue don't hold your breath.
ReplyDeleteHe will do whatever the county exec tells him to do. With a $7,000.00 a year raise and and no work job he has been bought and paid for. Wouldn't dare cross Hein.
Good news is you can vote him out next year before the merger is complete.
This is Nobles plan to get rid of these employees. Maybe even other employees down the line. He will have the city bankrupt.
ReplyDeleteLooks like the Nobles disagree on the sales tax package and also the shooting range interesting.
ReplyDeleteEven Steve's Uncle "Passive Jim" went on the record (this week's Kgn Times) against this giveaway to the county.
ReplyDeleteFor once I agree with Donaldson on the sales tax agreement. This is not good for the City, where is Loughran (no job) and Schwartz Berky (fired from County) on the sales tax issue. They represent the City of Kingston and they are siding with County Officials. City Residents should remember that when they run for re-election. They are not representing City residents only there to collect a pay check.
ReplyDeleteWhere is Loughran on the sales tax deal. He represents the City and has not said a word. He needs to be replaced as this is his only means of income.
ReplyDeleteGet the feeling by his silence that he thinks this is a good deal for the county! Does he forget he represents the city?
DeleteThe Labor Relations Specialist for CSEA should be replaced. He did nothing when Golden Hill was sold. He did nothing when Mental Health was shut down. He will do nothing when the Buses merge.CSEA needs to get a backbone or get out of the way and let another Union represent the employees before it's too late!
ReplyDeleteLoughran needs to be replaced he thinks he is going to become Elections Commissioner. REALYY has never held a job for an extend period.
ReplyDeleteLoughran voted yes on the sale tax. Screw the City of Kingston Residents nice.
ReplyDeleteIs Davis afraid to vote on anything NO on the Council?
ReplyDeleteit would appear so...he gets a pass on the indoor range so doesn't have to make an opinion about it. Curious as to what his opinions and vote would have been. but being employed by school district holds him hostage with his thoughts..since when does school board hold rule over city government?? so now we have county and school district having a say in city government. no tax relief for Kingston citizens from those entities.
DeleteHe is clueless,if you ever have a conversation with him, pay attention and you will hear him double talk and contradicte himself.
DeleteHe should resign if he can't vote on City issues. The school board nor the county runs the city but they seem to with this Mayor.
ReplyDelete